Born or Choice?

no its because a) you brought religion into it like i was damning you to hell, when i said nothing of the sort,
b) when i stated that i didn't bring up religion in defense, you said that i should be more worried about what the bible says etc.
c) you always think your right and have never in your life just said "okay, agree to disagree" as i just did. try it sometimes instead of shoving your opinions down peoples throat you hypocrite.

Jdawg wrote:

no its because a) you brought religion into it like i was damning you to hell, when i said nothing of the sort,
b) when i stated that i didn't bring up religion in defense, you said that i should be more worried about what the bible says etc.
c) you always think your right and have never in your life just said "okay, agree to disagree" as i just did. try it sometimes instead of shoving your opinions down peoples throat you hypocrite.

This is called debating dear, if you want to "agree to disagree", go to the junkyard.

or you could have the saneness to practice what you preach "deary"...ugh god you people need to pull your heads out of your own ass.

Jdawg wrote:

or you could have the saneness to practice what you preach "deary"...ugh god you people need to pull your heads out of your own ass.

Practice what I preach?
I preach nothing that I myself do not practice.
I preach against things I DO NOT practice.

And dear, it's very unprofessional to use such terms in a debate

its funny cause i used the same terms as you. so you just called yourself a bad debater. /thread.
not to mention its lg...not a business meeting. so most people who are trying to prove a point aren't gonna try to uphold the best etiquette possible.

Jdawg wrote:

its funny cause i used the same terms as you. so you just called yourself a bad debater. /thread.
not to mention its lg...not a business meeting. so most people who are trying to prove a point aren't gonna try to uphold the best etiquette possible.

In debates, you ALWAYS use etiquette, lest you look like a fool.
And the "Term" I was speaking of was something like, "Pull your head out of your ass". I never said that, Why would I? It would completely distract you from my point, which is a very weak debate strategy.

you've been doing it the entire time. such as now. its gone from a thread debating whether or not your born gay, to a thread on how your right and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. let me know when you actually get old enough to hold a proper debate then we can try this again k.

Jdawg wrote:

you've been doing it the entire time. such as now. its gone from a thread debating whether or not your born gay, to a thread on how your right and anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. let me know when you actually get old enough to hold a proper debate then we can try this again k.

Please, quote me where I was saying you ad your head up your ass,
This thread isn't a "post your opinion and leave" thread, it's a debate. So yes, you're supposed to tell WHY you're right.

once again just proved my point. i wasn't even talking about you saying that and yet you bring it up to take away from the fact that what i said is true. just leave dude. just leave.

Jdawg wrote:

once again just proved my point. i wasn't even talking about you saying that and yet you bring it up to take away from the fact that what i said is true. just leave dude. just leave.

Do you even have a point? All I've told you was factual information, and why I support the factual information. You replied with silly anger with nothing factual to back it up.
Also, please take an English class, nobody understands what you're saying.

I shall not leave, honeybun. Either ignore me or leave, because I'm not gonna let someone come in and be all "gays chose to be attracted to boys. Because I chose to be attracted to girls, didn't you all get a poll when you came out your mum's vag?"

Frostbite wrote:

Do you even have a point? All I've told you was factual information, and why I support the factual information. You replied with silly anger with nothing factual to back it up.
Also, please take an English class, nobody understands what you're saying.

I shall not leave, honeybun. Either ignore me or leave, because I'm not gonna let someone come in and be all "gays chose to be attracted to boys. Because I chose to be attracted to girls, didn't you all get a poll when you came out your mum's vag?"

keep proving my point kid. and my grammar is better than most of the users on this website

~Souleater~ wrote:

Ok, since it was turning the entire tide of the God debate thread, its getting its own.

Do you believe that a person is born gay, or makes a conscious choice to be gay?

Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Thanks to GAMEChief for the link and idea.)

Choice.
-cough- Oscar Wilde -cough-

He was married, had two kids and tried an "experiment" and ended up becoming gay.

Jdawg wrote:

keep proving my point kid. and my grammar is better than most of the users on this website

You just contradicted yourself by comparing your grammar to human beings.

I believe your sexual preference is based on past events, not being born one way or another.

I think that they choose to be gay, i think it's that point in their life when they realize that women dont want them. so they switch to gayism to be happy

There are a lot of factors that go into this topic.
I'm homosexual, but for the first 7 years of my life I was straight because I was too young to realize what I wanted out of love.
I now know I am attracted to other men, and if I had to for some odd reason I could date a girl.
Any gay guy who says they can't date a girl is an idiot.
So basically I find homosexuality a birth trait (to an extent), and a choice.

Mx250z wrote:

I think that they choose to be gay, i think it's that point in their life when they realize that women dont want them. so they switch to gayism to be happy

Oh you're silly.
Do you realize how often gay guys get hit on?
Like, I've never had trouble with girls, I've even had some "girl friends" but that was only because that's what was expected from me, not because I like girls. Most of the girls in my grade have expressed attraction to me, BUT I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO THEM. Therefore, I obviously didn't "choose" to be gay because girls don't like me.


THE ONLY choice in Homosexuality is whether you decide to embrace it or act like it's not there and lie to yourself.

EDIT: YYZ - you're saying the choice is whether you date the opposite sex, correct? Because sexuality is about who you're attracted to, not who you'd be willing to date. Plenty of gays have dated women to either cover their homosexuality or because they thought it was politically correct.

Environment has its roles too, y'know. So I'm assuming why homosexuals walk about is because of the things or people that might have influenced them.

Mx250z wrote:

I think that they choose to be gay, i think it's that point in their life when they realize that women dont want them. so they switch to gayism to be happy

... "Gayism"?

Please sir, Being gay is not a religion.

All homosexual and straight people are born with their orientation. It's set in their mind set throughout their life, they may not know they are until, just like previously stated by Frostbite, they find some way to realize that's exactly who they are.

Take me for example,
I've always lived my life knowing I was homosexual because in my earlier years, all I did was look around at the different people going by. I knew I was homosexual at 5 years old when I saw several good-looking men walking around a supermarket. I've been happy with my orientation ever since. People have the choice to believe in one way or another due to religious/personal beliefs, but, all people are born with their traits.

Now,
Most people as you know don't exactly accept this "lifestyle" as some call it. Whether because their family told them not to believe in it because of their background religion, or beliefs, or that the friends of someone who is homosexual makes fun of others for said orientation. That is all just a matter of opinion. Not everyone believes and thinks the way they do. Which is why broadly stating your opinion about someone else's lifestyle and trying to "bash" them just because they are not up to your "standards" is irrelevant in ANY conversation or topic.

Now, I am certainly not the religious type, you see I do not have a religion. Sure, my family may be Christian's, but that does not mean I believe in their beliefs and religious ways. As you may tell though, religion does have a major part in why people cannot accept this orientation. Religion, is just another poor excuse to give people something to believe in so that the world may keep it's peace. Naturally, the first person who invented "The Bible" obviously had no idea about homosexuals, that they just believed that a man and a woman should love, become married, and have children. That however is not the in the lives of many.

All in all, homosexuals are being accepted everywhere now and again these days. No need to make fun of, no need to be jealous, just be yourself and you can never go wrong.
All homosexuals and straight people are born with their orientation.

Those, are the facts.

well i'm not gay so i don't 100 percent know, but my point is, you can choose not to be gay, so i figure it should go both ways. but ike i said i'm not gay so i don't know how a gay person's brain works. so i'm not gonna go either way on this. just given my point of view.

I believe that it's how you're born. Many people are ashamed to be gay while others aren't. Those that are hide it until a event triggers them to share it. If it was a choice then I'm sure many people wouldn't choose it cause of the pain it brings.

Hellsome wrote:

... "Gayism"?

Please sir, Being gay is not a religion.

Haha "gayism" it's just a funny sounding word. lol.

If gay was a choice or environmental factors why do so many homosexuals come from different backgrounds and experiences? Because its NOT a choice.

Even if its a choice, who cares? Religion is 100% a choice and no one really makes a big deal about that.

I never understood why anyone could think someone would want to CHOOSE a life where:
a. Love is harder to find.. a ton less gays than straight people.
b. Most people don't like you.
c. You're officially a target of the KKK. (lols)
d. People constantly argue about why you made such a "stupid choice"

Frostbite wrote:

I never understood why anyone could think someone would want to CHOOSE a life where:
a. Love is harder to find.. a ton less gays than straight people.
b. Most people don't like you.
c. You're officially a target of the KKK. (lols)
d. People constantly argue about why you made such a "stupid choice"

Some people honestly don't give a crap about what others think of them.

And the quantity of gays in a society does not influence a person to be gay or not. If they became gay for a person, then it's not going to make a difference if they live in a gay Utopian society since they have that one person they love.
It's like favoring one thing that one of two other people like while others favor the other thing; the people favoring the one thing don't really care about those who don't favor what they favor.

Also, People may constantly argue about why gay individuals made a "stupid choice", but then the individual would most likely counter that with a counterargument asking why they made the stupid choice of staying straight.

Honestly, it's a choice.

Hellsome wrote:

Some people honestly don't give a crap about what others think of them.

And the quantity of gays in a society does not influence a person to be gay or not. If they became gay for a person, then it's not going to make a difference if they live in a gay Utopian society since they have that one person they love.
It's like favoring one thing that one of two other people like while others favor the other thing; the people favoring the one thing don't really care about those who don't favor what they favor.

Also, People may constantly argue about why gay individuals made a "stupid choice", but then the individual would most likely counter that with a counterargument asking why they made the stupid choice of staying straight.

Honestly, it's a choice.

I've never heard of anyone "becoming gay for a person".
Gays don't just feel attracted to one person and decide "I'll become gay!"
They're just like straight people, we're turned on by the same sex though, rather than the opposite.

Can you honestly say when you look at someone who arouses you, you made a conscious decision to become turned on and aroused? If so, please see a doctor; that's not normal, dear.

Frostbite wrote:

I've never heard of anyone "becoming gay for a person".
Gays don't just feel attracted to one person and decide "I'll become gay!"
They're just like straight people, we're turned on by the same sex though, rather than the opposite.

Can you honestly say when you look at someone who arouses you, you made a conscious decision to become turned on and aroused? If so, please see a doctor; that's not normal, dear.

If you've never seen that, then I urge you to find documentaries about Oscar Wilde.

Although it was an "experiment" Oscar Wilde still had the choice of remaining gay or not. However, it was his choice to remain gay despite his wife and two children.

Also, it was a choice for Oscar Wilde because of how he decided to try the experiment out after he was starting a family.

And to your last statement, I should actually ask you that same question. I can bet that there has been at least one moment in your life when you were mildly attracted to a person of the same sex. If not, then that's a lie.

blackjesus wrote:

well i'm not gay so i don't 100 percent know, but my point is, you can choose not to be gay, so i figure it should go both ways. but ike i said i'm not gay so i don't know how a gay person's brain works. so i'm not gonna go either way on this. just given my point of view.

Well then let me put it this way, you can "choose not to be gay" but can you choose not to be straight. Would it disgust you to be with someone of the same sex? Would you not be able to have sexual contact with someone of the same sex? Because if so, you just totally screwed over what little point you had.

---
@Hellsome:
Interestingly enough as a small child I actually didn't know I was attracted tmen. Only one thing I realized later, is as a child with out even thinking I'd actually masturbate about women. NEVER about men like ever. TMI probably but I didn't even realize I liked women even after having a crush on a girl in elementary school, then another one in junior high school. I had crushes on both my best friends that were girls as well. I didn't say anything about it and just sort of ignored it because I thought that was just fucking weird. The urge to actually be with someone of the same gender. I just thought it didn't work that way. It wasn't until high school I really admitted it to myself that "well maybe I sort of like women"? Maybe it is possible? Eventually the more time went on the more I realized I like women. Especially sexually compared to men. I always feel like I confuse myself because I do indeed like men as well but not the extent of women. If I wasn't with my boyfriend now who I love, (he acts very effeminate at times lol) I probably would be with a girl. Personally I don't think it's a conscious choice. I think you just fall in love with who ever the fuck you fall in love with.

Hellsome wrote:

If you've never seen that, then I urge you to find documentaries about Oscar Wilde.

Although it was an "experiment" Oscar Wilde still had the choice of remaining gay or not. However, it was his choice to remain gay despite his wife and two children.

Also, it was a choice for Oscar Wilde because of how he decided to try the experiment out after he was starting a family.

And to your last statement, I should actually ask you that same question. I can bet that there has been at least one moment in your life when you were mildly attracted to a person of the same sex. If not, then that's a lie.

He didn't "choose to remain gay." He chose to stop lieing and show who he truly was.

Yes, I've only had crushes on guys.
And no, I've never even been mildly attracted to a girl. I think vaginas are the most disgusting thing in the world, and when I see a pretty girl, I wanna be her friend, not have sex with her.

You are ignorant if you think you can tell a gay person that you know more about them than they do.

Does it make you gay if you jizz in your girlfriends mouth and than after she forces you to make out with her and you taste your own jizz?

SIXX wrote:

Does it make you gay if you jizz in your girlfriends mouth and than after she forces you to make out with her and you taste your own jizz?

No...
What the fuck does that have to do with being sexually attracted to men?
gtfo.
/meanness

Frostbite wrote:

No...
What the fuck does that have to do with being sexually attracted to men?
gtfo.
/meanness

nah I was just asking if it made you gay or not...
There is some dude in class that keeps hitting on me at times...I think sometimes I might be curious as to how being gay is....I don't think its a bad thing but I wouldn't want anyone near me think I'm a fag and all

But for the most part I think people choose to be gay and arn't born with it

SIXX wrote:

Does it make you gay if you jizz in your girlfriends mouth and than after she forces you to make out with her and you taste your own jizz?

That's called snowballing, and any case what the fuck does that have to do with the thread. Did you even really read anything in here? Lol

CL0V3R wrote:

That's called snowballing, and any case what the fuck does that have to do with the thread. Did you even really read anything in here? Lol

I just wanted to know if it would make me gay or not...
I mean alright if there was an exact clone of you and they were jerking you off would it be gay or considered masterbation?

Frostbite wrote:

He didn't "choose to remain gay." He chose to stop lieing and show who he truly was.

Yes, I've only had crushes on guys.
And no, I've never even been mildly attracted to a girl. I think vaginas are the most disgusting thing in the world, and when I see a pretty girl, I wanna be her friend, not have sex with her.

You are ignorant if you think you can tell a gay person that you know more about them than they do.

Your bold part is basically supporting the statement that he remained gay.

Also, do quote where I directly said I knew more than you do.

CL0V3R wrote:

Well then let me put it this way, you can "choose not to be gay" but can you choose not to be straight. Would it disgust you to be with someone of the same sex? Would you not be able to have sexual contact with someone of the same sex? Because if so, you just totally screwed over what little point you had.

well i did say i didn't know for a one hundred percent fact, so you didn't have to be mean about it. but honestly if a straight person tried to be gay, found a guy they actually have alot in common with, and went for it, then after a while it would become natural. it would take some time to get used to, but yes it is still a choice in my opinion

blackjesus wrote:

well i did say i didn't know for a one hundred percent fact, so you didn't have to be mean about it. but honestly if a straight person tried to be gay, found a guy they actually have alot in common with, and went for it, then after a while it would become natural. it would take some time to get used to, but yes it is still a choice in my opinion

That's not homosexuality, though.
You all are making hypothetical situations that simply don't happen.
Straight guy dating a guy: Not gay
GAY guy dating guy: gay

Homosexuality: Being sexually attracted to men
What you all are saying: Some random straight guy trying to lie himself into a same-sex relationship.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME

Frostbite wrote:

That's not homosexuality, though. (3.)
You all are making hypothetical situations that simply don't happen.(1.)
Straight guy dating a guy: Not gay
GAY guy dating guy: gay

Homosexuality: Being sexually attracted to men (3.)
What you all are saying: Some random straight guy trying to lie himself into a same-sex relationship.(2.)

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME (3.)

1. Do say how Oscar Wilde deciding to remain gay is "hypothetical".

In addition, you are acting hypocritical by bringing up (1.) in your post. Let's look at the hypothetical situations that you've posted.

Hypothetical Situation 1. wrote:

Way to provide evidence that gays, which you're evidently not, consciously decide "I want to be attracted to guys!?!". That's retarded. When did you "consciously decide" to be straight?

Hypothetical Situation 2. wrote:

You're viewing attraction has just "I could have sex with this person."

Hypothetical Situation 3. wrote:

Ok, of course we're gonna act like we think girls are hot. We know most people are idiots that think we're doing it as a choice and reject us and stuff. Any gay guy who has dated a girl or thought about dating one was doing it, not because they thought the girl was attractive, but because society says, "boys date girls."

If you're not gay, then you don't know. You can't say, "You guys are gay because of _______" becuase:
a. YOU DONT KNOW
b. YOUR OPINION is not your god's. Therefore, it's the opinion of a "sinner" which could be lying.

Hypothetical Situation 4. wrote:

Yes, but do I care about what the Bible says? nope. Do YOU? you should if you're a christian.
Every nonchristian has a right to use the bible against a christian.

Hypothetical Situation 5. wrote:

Like, I've never had trouble with girls, I've even had some "girl friends" but that was only because that's what was expected from me, not because I like girls. Most of the girls in my grade have expressed attraction to me, BUT I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO THEM. Therefore, I obviously didn't "choose" to be gay because girls don't like me.

Hypothetical Situation 6. wrote:

I never understood why anyone could think someone would want to CHOOSE a life where:
a. Love is harder to find.. a ton less gays than straight people.
b. Most people don't like you.
c. You're officially a target of the KKK. (lols)
d. People constantly argue about why you made such a "stupid choice"

Hypothetical Situation 7. wrote:

I never understood why anyone could think someone would want to CHOOSE a life where:
a. Love is harder to find.. a ton less gays than straight people.
b. Most people don't like you.
c. You're officially a target of the KKK. (lols)
d. People constantly argue about why you made such a "stupid choice"

Hypothetical Situation 8. wrote:

I never understood why anyone could think someone would want to CHOOSE a life where:
a. Love is harder to find.. a ton less gays than straight people.
b. Most people don't like you.
c. You're officially a target of the KKK. (lols)
d. People constantly argue about why you made such a "stupid choice"

Hypothetical Situation 9. wrote:

Straight guy dating a guy: Not gay
GAY guy dating guy: gay

Hypothetical is most nearly "based on a Hypothesis", in which a hypothesis is "a proposed explanation for an observable phenomenon".

Up to this point, you've been saying nothing but "I've done this, I've done that". How do we know it's true? It's merely an explanation to prove your point.

These are all Hypothetical Explanations because they are merely here to prove your point.


2. Do say how Oscar Wilde tried to "lie himself into a same-sex relationship".[/B]

He did not lie to himself. Rather, he met a person who he tried the experimented on, and decided to remain gay.

3. Actually, Homosexual is the proper term, not gay. Based on the meanings from Old and Proper English, Gay means to be happy, and so your definition of gay is synonymous with Homosexual.

Also, Look at this link That defines Gay. Look at bullets 5 and 6. Actually, I will quote it just for you.

Definition of Gay wrote:

- Homosexual: someone who practices homosexuality; having a sexual attraction to persons of the same sex
- Homosexual or arousing homosexual desires

Thus, your statement that Gay and Homosexual are not synonymous is false.

If I am wrong, then do provide a clear definition rather than a hypothetical situation of what being "Gay", by your definition, truly is.

You're showing your degree of arrogance by stating this claim:

Frostbite wrote:

You are ignorant if you think you can tell a gay person that you know more about them than they do.

By definition, ignorance is "lacking knowledge or sophistication". However, who are you to call me ignorant when you have no idea what kind of life I dwell in? How do you know that I'm not friends with lesbians, gays, or that any one of my relatives happen gay? Of all things, I should be calling you ignorant, not the other way around.

It does not matter if you are gay or straight, this discussion is about "Is being gay a choice or is it not?"

If the answer to this thread's question was analogous to God, then being gay does not make you Jesus.

Your belief that "being gay is not by choice" comes merely from your own observations, whereas the belief I have comes from the fact that one of my cousins is gay, that a neighbor across the street is gay, and that I am part of a Gay-Straight alliance association, thus providing multiple insights on my belief that Being gay is by choice, as multiple people have told me that.

It is fine for you to accuse these twenty-some odd individuals of committing blasphemy to your ideals, but that would also mean that your ideals are also an act of blasphemy to what they happen to believe.

Am I saying you are wrong? No I am not.

... But am I saying you are right? No I am not.


By the way,

Frostbite wrote:

But I understand why you don't want to debate with me
I know I'm a good debater regardless.

That's called being cocky.

Frostbite wrote:

Ok, None of those were hypothetical situations.
Hypothetical Situations - situations, statements or questions about something imaginary rather than something real. (1.)

That word has little to nothing to do with the word Hypothesis other than the root.

And your Oscar Wilde and what blackjesus was saying were completely separate conversations.

Oscar Wilde- Either realized he was a homosexual (4.), or was using his wife as a cover, just as my aunt did with her husband. (2.) His only decision was obviously that he would not return to his wife, but rather stay with the one he loved.

Nobody can understand a gay person as much as a gay person does. So you have a few gay people around you. Well guess what? Being gay(4.), I have dozens of gay friends, a few trans, and a ton of bisexual friends. I just didn't feel the need to bring them up, as I felt, herp derp, we all happened the same way- we were all attracted to the same sex since birth.

All of them share my view. None have ever told me what I say is incorrect when it comes to this subject. (3.)

EDIT: I have no IDEA who told you they became gay by choice. But if they were lesbians, then no comment. If they are guys, then please tell me how they define being gay as a choice.
Some people take "being gay is a choice" to mean different things.
Some think you mean that the choice is whether you act on your sexual desires, some think it's whether or not you're sexually attracted to the same sex, others think it's who you date.

The fact of the matter is, homosexuality, by definition is:
A sexual attraction to person(s) of the same sex.

It's not:
Dating the same sex.
Marrying the same sex.
Having sex with the same sex.

The key word is: Attraction.

1. Look up the definition of hypothetical before saying the national definition is incorrect.

Also, From what my dictionary says, anything that is hypothetical is based off a hypothesis. Do say that a dictionary is wrong. In fact, go straight to American Heritage AND Merriam-Webster and say how theyr definitions of hypothetical are incorrect. Good luck doing that.

2. Again with your hypothetical situations. How do you know that when your Aunt married your Uncle that she was in fact marrying him only to cover her decision to be homosexual? Even though she says that now or even years before, there could have been an event that forced her to be angry with your Uncle and therefore call the marriage a "cover-up".

3. You're saying a small portion of the homosexuals WORLDWIDE agree with what you say. You still haven't accounted for the rest of the homosexual population.

4. I find it ironic how you say that being "homosexual" and "gay" are not synonymous (even though the true meanings are nowhere near similar), yet you use them interchangeably.

Also, you still have not responded to the questions in my previous post. I'll repost them again just for you.

1. Do say how Oscar Wilde deciding to remain gay is "hypothetical".

2. Do say how Oscar Wilde tried to "lie himself into a same-sex relationship".

Also, answer these without hypothetical situations, you're seriously contradicting yourself by saying how much you dislike them, yet use them.